RBGw SA

[auLe]

Немного о том, почему хорош дискард и черный:

 

Ну так это же очевидные вещи. Черный играется только ради дискарда, вопрос в том сколько мы его хотим, мне думается 4 копии любимого спела мейндеком достаточно.

[Tinefol]

На мой взгляд не достаточно. Давеча Растик выиграл у меня зарядив два дискарда подряд, а потом еще и третий чуть позже. На один спелл меньше - и сюр бы он так и не воткнул. Вообще, для стабильной раздачи дискарда в стартовую 4х карточек мало.

[Tinefol]

Про лягушку и других

 

@Spore Frog: It's an ehh lock. Any instant speed removal breaks your lock. Most every deck ever runs some sort of instant speed removal. Force, STP, Fanatic, Bolt, etc. Funniest thing I could imagine doing with it is fogging Progenitus or something, but I'd much rather just kill the bitch with Fleshbag Marauder.

 

Ingot Chewer and Wispmare have huge strengths. They cost 1, which is hugely important in seizing tempo. And furthermore, they get in the yard for Witness recursion with 1. An early Wispmare or Chewer and I can sometimes go toe to toe with Enchantress, Affinity, or what have you, and after boardiing in two more, the effect is pretty nice. Wispmare's also pretty neat against a fast Counterbalance, in case I can't get a Pridemage down pre-emptively. Chewer's also a decent body if I'm mana-heavy, and Wispmare can be useful for doing random things like blocking Hypnotic Specter or chumping Tombstalker.

 

It's worth noting that out of my Qasali/Ingot/Wispmare setup, however, that Wispmare would be the first cut from the maindeck, as it's awful against Pernicious Deed and has that whole "Ha ha you blow up your own Survival" thing going.

 

и еще про эвокеров

The thing about Ingot Chewer and Wispmare is that while they're narrow, they're strong, cost less than other solutions of their type which is huge given how mana hungry Survival is, are incredibly easy to recur due to the fact that they put themselves in the graveyard for you, and are difficult to counter by conventional Legacy means.

 

Ingot Chewer's a complete monster. He creates an artifact removal loop with Genesis for a turn, which is a steal. He's a master at taking out Phyrexian Dreadnought against Dreadstill. He picks off Vials against both Goblins and Merfolk. Eats Needles on Survival. Eats Jitte. Eats Chalice of the Void alive. Forces your opponent to blow Relic/Crypt on your terms. And if you've got mana to spare, he's a decent 3/3 body to put on the board while taking something out. He can't touch top, but nothing you're comparing him to can either.

 

Wispmare's less incredible than Ingot Chewer for one reason and one reason only, which is like Harmonic Sliver (But unlike Wickerbough Elder or Qasali Pridemage), if your opponent's enchantment jumps off the board before your creature resolves, it's going to blow up your own Survival. It also can't get you around a Standstill. However, it provides a reasonable attack against Counterbalance (They don't run -that- many 3-drops), a beautiful piece of recursion against opposing Survivals (It costs you less to recur/remove their Survival then it does for them to Witness/Play it), and a machine gun against any enchantment-heavy decks you might run across. It has no recourse against Humility, but again, no creature you can run in this slot does.

 

The 1-mana evoke costs are the real reason to run these guys, though. When you've got the Survival to hunt what you need, there's nothing better, as the fact that they cost one can save your ass when time is of the essence and you need to both be getting Anger/Squee/Genesis online -and- solving a problem.

 

Another guy you should look into running if you're running 4 colors is Burrenton Forge-Tender. I keep one in my sideboard at the moment to supplement Hierarch/Finks because at current, he's Survival's best answer to Zoo's Price of Progress.

[Tinefol]

О трайбалах

 

Goblins isn't as big of a problem now that lists with any sense aren't running Mogg Fanatic. Makes it harder for them to slaughter your manabase. Merfolk can be tough, but not unwinnable. Here are my recommendations for beating Goblins and Merfolk.

 

1. Run a solid manabase. Wasteland is the card that hurts you the most. I run 22 land, 4 Birds, a Quirion Ranger, and a Rofellos, and my curve is low.

 

2. Run Plagues in your sideboard if you have a ton of tribal trouble (Say that three times fast.) If you aren't running them, a wave of Shriekmaws helps.

 

3. Study their decklist and practice your blind Cabal Therapies. Based on how each of these decks plays their first three or four turns, you should be able to discern with reasonable accuracy what to name with Cabal Therapy. Hitting on a blind Therapy you topdecked midgame can win you matches.

 

4. Don't let them draw. Try to use your discard to keep Merfolk off Standstill/Silvergill, and Goblins off Matron/Ringleader. Your card advantage engine may be more consistent than theirs, but it's also less explosive.

 

5. Have an answer to Relic of Progenitus. Ingot Chewer's solid here, as it gets rid of Relic or Vial for just one red and recurs. Pithing Needle also shines in these matches for its ability to stop Wasteland, Relic, or Vial dead in their tracks. Null Rod is similarly awesome, just without the Wasteland part, but it also helps against combo.

[Tinefol]

Про грейв хейт

I've found that the maindeck Loaming Shaman and 1-2 boarded Faerie Macabre has been plenty of yard hate for me. Shaman's been the MVP. He's on color, selects what he wants to put back, beats for 3, and just generally gets the job done. Macabre's better for when you need the yard hate to be inexpensive and at instant speed rather than slow but powerful.

 

Keep in mind that I can get by in the Ichorid match with this given that I can keep my opponent off Bridge by running a ridiculous amount of evoke creatures. If you aren't and you expect Ichorid, run a little more.

 

I'm not a huge fan of Crypt. Relic is terrible here. And unless your meta is ridiculously yard-heavy, I wouldn't play Leyline. If you're expecting a metagame comprising of Ichorid and Survival mirrors, sure, but otherwise? Not so much.

 

Extirpate's a fair option, especially if your builds are more controllish like mine. I don't run it at present, but if you do, pack a Fulminator Mage or a Dwarven Miner in sideboard. They help in some matchups by themselves, and being able to shut certain decks off of a color with LD/Extirpate is terrifically underrated sometimes.

 

Еще про шамана

Yay! I like this question.

 

1. Loaming Shaman is a complete, customizable assault on an opponent's graveyard. It can take everything if you want to keep a deck off of Threshold. It can virtually reset Ichorid (If, obviously, you live long enough). It can shut opponents off getting much use out of things like Eternal Witness. It lets you control Tarmogoyf size if your opponent has more of them than you do. It takes rogue flashback cards like Cabal Therapy, Call of the Herd, or Chainer's Edict away. It prevents Hellspark Elemental from recurring. It just hits tons and tons of random shit.

 

2. It's on color.

 

3. It gives you a body while it's doing this. This is very crucial.

 

4. In a complicated, roundabout way, it's actually good -against- graveyard hate. For example, it's not a very uncommon thing to have Squee, Genesis, or both knocked out of my yard, leaving me relying solely on Eternal Witness for card advantage. This can result in some neat stuff, as later in games you can Witness for a Witness for a Witness for whatever you need, etc. But four Witnesses can't recur everything. Against control or in any game that goes into a late game, Loaming Shaman can actually put all the Witnesses or relevant search targets back in your library.

 

5. If you don't get Survival game 1 and don't need the graveyard hate, it's better and easier to cast than Faerie Macabre.

 

Now, in matchups where I actually feel the need to board in graveyard hate, this generally means I want it to be fast and free. That means Faerie Macabre, and I keep switching between 2 and 3 copies depending on what I expect to face. So Macabre lives in by board en masse and Shaman lives in my maindeck.

[Tinefol]

Почему топ (и в общем-то по той же причине виш) не очень хороши в сюре.

Thing is, though, Survival -is- a very mana hungry deck. In a format that really doesn't afford you a hell of a lot of time. Legacy has gotten so fast that resolving a Survival isn't always enough to clean up a situation. Survival has to spend a lot of mana to get set up.

 

Top, while very useful in theory in this deck, doesn't help this situation. You don't have a lot of time or spare mana to be spending on the top activations to really fully abuse it here. My experiences playing with it were that while it won me games that stalled out into the mid and late games, it lost me nearly as many by making my deck a little bit too slow.

 

In its defense, however, Top is fantastic at keeping discard off the top of my library in the midgame. But I think that if I were going to run Top, 1 would be the number I'd run, and it'd have to beat out my seventh maindeck discard slot. And given how bad I want the eighth one back maindeck, I can't justify it at this point.

[Tinefol]

Ну и вот такой примерно сайд:

 

SB:

4 Engineered Plague

2 Faerie Macabre

2 Gaddock Teeg

2 Krosan Grip

1 Ingot Chewer

1 Pithing Needle

1 Kitchen Finks

1 Burrenton Forge-Tender

1 Cabal Therapy

[smirnov]

ушел читать и много думать

[shamash]

Саш а какой смысл менять чтото в деке в последний момент ?

[smirnov]

я пока ещё ничего не поменял. )

 

3-4 опции + играть/не играть виши, это не то чтобы менять. это тюнить скорее